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Firearms in the Ukraine

Wildcat

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Guns to use to capture more (modern) guns; then the collectors items can be put back over the mantle.
Trying resupply such a variety of calibers/systems gets tedious in hurry.
 

Story

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Guns to use to capture more (modern) guns; then the collectors items can be put back over the mantle.
Trying resupply such a variety of calibers/systems gets tedious in hurry.
If I recall correctly, the belts for the 7.62x54R PKM GPMG work just fine in the M1910 Maxim.

The DP27 is chambered for 7.62x54R, of course.


 

Abominog

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A pair of Maxims could throw an incredible amount of sustained fire. Much better than a pair of m240s. I can’t imagine feeding them. There are many accounts from WW1 of a single Vickers crew firing in excess of 100,000 rounds in one night.

of course nothing screams air strike like a pair of maxims that never stop.
 

lew

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A pair of Maxims could throw an incredible amount of sustained fire. Much better than a pair of m240s. I can’t imagine feeding them. There are many accounts from WW1 of a single Vickers crew firing in excess of 100,000 rounds in one night.

of course nothing screams air strike like a pair of maxims that never stop.
I wonder if engine coolant and a recirculating pump would work better at cooling the barrels for some really insane suppressive fire capacity...
 

Abominog

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I wonder if engine coolant and a recirculating pump would work better at cooling the barrels for some really insane suppressive fire capacity...
Yes and yes. With that a pair of Maxims could probably do a half million rounds with no breakage. Heat doesn’t just destroy barrels, it gets in the action and fatigues parts. Reduce heat, no breaks, no cook offs.
 

gew98

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A pair of Maxims could throw an incredible amount of sustained fire. Much better than a pair of m240s. I can’t imagine feeding them. There are many accounts from WW1 of a single Vickers crew firing in excess of 100,000 rounds in one night.

of course nothing screams air strike like a pair of maxims that never stop.
I've not heard that much being put through a single gun in a single day. The most I read of such was one german MG company that had most of their 08 maxim guns fire in excess of 20,000 rounds each on the opening day of the somme in july 1916. The brits suffered something close to 18k dead and another 30k wounded on that first july day of slaughter. And that was a frontage of less than 4 miles. Imagine by day three the smell , the flies , industrial death on a grand scale.
 

lew

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I've not heard that much being put through a single gun in a single day. The most I read of such was one german MG company that had most of their 08 maxim guns fire in excess of 20,000 rounds each on the opening day of the somme in july 1916. The brits suffered something close to 18k dead and another 30k wounded on that first july day of slaughter. And that was a frontage of less than 4 miles. Imagine by day three the smell , the flies , industrial death on a grand scale.
I seem to recall a story of a ten gun Brit team disposing of a million rounds in less than 24 hours after the war had ended. Anybody else recall this?
 

gew98

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I seem to recall a story of a ten gun Brit team disposing of a million rounds in less than 24 hours after the war had ended. Anybody else recall this?
The great war is one of my fetishes . I have a library of books on this horrible period of time. While vickers guns are excellent , the german maxims by far had better trained crews and typically german were well attended to. The veterans that did put their experiences of for example the Somme in july 1916 - brit and german the murderous fusillade of Emma Gee fire from the german trenches in direct fire mode. Not until mid 1917 did a canadian do the math and start indirect MG fire day or night that the slaughter became total. I recall the german MG gunner said at the end of the 2nd day his guns though functioning were wrecked. So many rounds downrange and sadly so many targets slogging through the mud. I read one account of a brit officer offering up his whiskey to keep his emma gees from freezing their water in the guns...but only just enough as too much and the guns would leak into the actions. So much hell so easily forgotten with time.
 

Marlin781

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The great war is one of my fetishes . I have a library of books on this horrible period of time. While vickers guns are excellent , the german maxims by far had better trained crews and typically german were well attended to. The veterans that did put their experiences of for example the Somme in july 1916 - brit and german the murderous fusillade of Emma Gee fire from the german trenches in direct fire mode. Not until mid 1917 did a canadian do the math and start indirect MG fire day or night that the slaughter became total. I recall the german MG gunner said at the end of the 2nd day his guns though functioning were wrecked. So many rounds downrange and sadly so many targets slogging through the mud. I read one account of a brit officer offering up his whiskey to keep his emma gees from freezing their water in the guns...but only just enough as too much and the guns would leak into the actions. So much hell so easily forgotten with time.
I recently read some of those German MG crews were so good that if they knew or suspected enemy troops were sheltering at extreme range on the other side of a hill they could direct their fire to just barely clear the crest of the hill and still inflict casualties on the other side.
 

the gman

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I seem to recall a story of a ten gun Brit team disposing of a million rounds in less than 24 hours after the war had ended. Anybody else recall this?
There was indeed such an account and seemed to have authority as it was written by the officer commanding the detachment of Vickers guns alleged to have completed the task. However, subsequent substantial investigation has run the matter to ground and found the figure to be more likely closer to 100,000 rounds in the time period and between 6 guns rather than 10. A link to the full PDF of the investigation may be found in the page below along with some interesting snippets of information pertaining to the Vickers.

 

gew98

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I recently read some of those German MG crews were so good that if they knew or suspected enemy troops were sheltering at extreme range on the other side of a hill they could direct their fire to just barely clear the crest of the hill and still inflict casualties on the other side.
In 1917 the germans created Maschinengewehr Sxhrafshutzen Abteilung , In english " Machinegun sharpshooter detachment". These detachments were "roving" and used at the discretion of command level planners. These men were the apex of emma gee gunners . They learned about everything you could to make an MG effective to even copying the Canadian out of sight interdiction plunging machinegun fire. Any equipment used by them unit marked is exceedingly rare. I had a sawback 84/98 bayonet marked to such a detachment. Jeff Noll talked me out of it years ago.
 

Abominog

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In WW1 water cooled HMGs were used for indirect fire. It was a significant part of their training and use. The mortar replaced the water cooled MG for infantry use. The browning 50 cal water cooled was used for AA, but that was killed off by 20 and 40mm with multiple barrels.

today an old water cooled is still far more reliable than the PKM or M240. However mobility is limited, and with mortars and rockets a heavy water cooled gun with a crew is a sitting duck.

i would think there would still be a role for water cooled guns in defensive positions where there has to be a MG anyway, and the attackers know there’s gotta be one there.
 

pmf

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1,000,000 rounds in 12 hours
That's 1,000,000/12 = 83,333 rounds an hour
That's 83,000/60 = 1,389 rounds a minute
That's 1,389/60 = 23 rounds a second continuously for 43,200 seconds.

I call BS
 

adam762

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AFAIK the mg3 use the non disintegrating belts. So not sure where Adams ammo is going. A few m240/ MAg58 can’t eat all that
I dunno. I had my theories before the shooting started but now that it's the real...... but yeah if anyone finds any pics of belt fed 762 nato weapons, post them. I have a sorta personal curiosity.
 
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